A war on #public #education

Comments

1. BbBennett says:
   September 2, 2011 at 7:45 am

   How about this: I’ll refer you thousands of readers to the previous post: “The #gender of #homeschooling”
   of August 23, 2011 (It’s the only other post with a large comment thread — which you closed.)

   We’ll let others decide if these conversations are worth continuing. You stated you haven’t the time or inclination to study homeschooling. You have regurgitated multiple myths, views and misconceptions about home educating parents (and no… I’m not going to go over them for you) all while trying to sound interested in studying them with an open mind. I’ve listened to a total of TWO of your recent podcasts and you hold an obvious disdain for people who are conservative politically and who take responsibility for raising their own families without the government nanny state taking care of them and their children.

   You paint your dialectic with such a broad brush, it’s impossible to see what you’re trying to illustrate. Good luck to you.

   Reply
   • Chalk Face says:
     September 2, 2011 at 10:07 am

     Well, in your refusal to address “PC crap,” I can assume how you define that, and I don’t really need your input. So, to end this little debate, let’s assume that you know about as much about public schooling as I do homeschooling. However, your utter contempt for public school advocates and public “government” schooling still being in existence is rather unique. I do not begrudge anyone for homeschooling, it’s their right. But I do object to the outright arrogance that some advocates display as to the absolute truth of their views. That their version or interpretation of public education is the correct one.

     Finally, and I don’t say this lightly, but given the current political climate, with the far-right turn of conservative politics, I absolutely have disdain for right-wing politics and the absolute mythology of rugged individualism. Thanks for listening to the podcast!! Tell your friends!!

     Reply
2. BbBennett says:
   September 1, 2011 at 12:19 am

   I’m saying that parents are parents. Of course they want to believe what they’re doing for their children is the best thing for them. And of course, if you are asking a parent what they think of the school they are required to send their children to, if it’s a good school… they’ll answer more favorably. They may be right, they may be wrong. I don’t think it matters as much as you suggest. You act like this survey is objective, when it appears there’s nothing objective about it. They think the school they know about is fine, and the ones they don’t know about (but hear all the stories) are obviously bad or at least not as good as the ones they send THEIR kids to (and pay taxes to support.)

   Is there any objective data out there that can rate school systems and individual schools based on things other than what parents “feel” about them? I’m sure there are. I’ll bet there are ways to tell a bad from a good school even without relying on test scores.

   [As an aside, based on your offhand comment in your "Five Good Questions" post -- "Many parents are idiots, and we cannot allow public funds to be disbursed to idiots, when we can prevent it at least." -- it surprises me you give parents' opinions any weight at all.]

   As for homeschoolers… it’s obvious by our previous discourse that you hold parents who take the responsibility for the education of their own children in just as high esteem as you hold many other parents (idiots.) It’s difficult for me to waste my time discussing home education with someone so disrespectful and disdainful of the people and the concept on such a large scale.

   And be sure… I’m not calling you out on your comment. I’ve met “idiot” parents of all kinds as well and I’ve pretty much said the same thing you did about them. The only difference is I try to reserve that kind of labeling for people whom I know something about.

   Hmm. That brings us full circle in a way. You know a lot about your world of academia, and prefer it and have hope for it and even like it. You have admitted you have a purposeful ignorance of anything related to independent (from the state) learning and the culture and lifestyle of homeschooling … and lo and behold… you think most homeschoolers are bad. Maybe PDK should include your findings in a study.

   Peace

   Reply
   • Chalk Face says:
     September 1, 2011 at 11:29 am

     I don’t think homeschoolers are bad, never did I make that comment. I do, however, get a sense that many home and unschools are very adamant in their views about educating their OWN children. They also suggest that their model is the right one for ALL children, suggesting that parents leave public schools. And, just like public schools are not for everyone, neither are homeschool situations. Advocates of that kind of choice should be just as humble in their views as we are expected to be. Being humble is what keeps us open to critique.

     Again, what do you mean by PC crap?

     Reply
3. Chalk Face says:
   August 31, 2011 at 10:01 pm

   All right, so the parents in the survey, according to your logic, are “deluded” by TOPS (cute) and are therefore incorrect in their analysis of public schools. Or, they’re simply biased and in favor of their own schools, but are ignorant to the larger realities. Fine.

   So, my question: if those parents, the public school parents who feel good about their public schools are wrong, then how do you assume that parents who opt out in favor of home or unschooling know what the hell they’re talking about? And if they feel good about their own public school, what difference does it make? The like their school, their teachers, and if it’s fine for them, then they can have it?

   Also, define “PC crap” because I’m willing to bet you don’t know what you’re talking about? I spend roughly 15 hours a week in elementary schools, spent a summer teaching in a DC charter school, I’d like to know what you mean by PC crap because I think you think you know what you’re talking about, but I’m willing to bet ya’ don’t.

   Reply
4. BbBennett says:
   August 31, 2011 at 9:03 pm

   Answer: People are always predisposed to believe that THEIR school (or whatever is being evaluated) is better than most. I call it Those Other People Syndrome, or TOPS. “Those other people” are almost always worse off or have worse schools than the ones *their* kids are going to. This is my of saying this: (from the summary of the poll)

   PERCEPTIONS OF QUALITY
   We’re proud of the schools we know and think less of the schools we don’t know — it’s a
   matter of local pride.

   Plain and simple: The schools we know about, we think more highly of. The schools we don’t know about A MASSIVE MAJORITY, we automatically think less of. No doubt, because of all of the media attention on a steady stream of bad situations that public schools find themselves in.

   Parents STILL want better teachers. They STILL want all the PC crap cut out so that there is more time to teach the Three R’s. They STILL want to know (not just believe) that their school is a safe place to send their children.

   Reply
5. Chalk Face says:
   August 31, 2011 at 9:54 am

   But you did not address my original contention: that the PDK highlights that people are satisfied with their respective public school. How does that square with what you’ve highlighted above?

   Reply
6. BbBennett says:
   August 30, 2011 at 11:19 pm

   Public schools (government run, taxpayer supported) are essentially monopolies, where perpetuation of the monopoly is based on forced funding and compulsory attendance. Evaluations on how they can be improved are pretty much subject to the bureaucracy rather than any constructive input from the “customers” forced to use the services.

   In my opinion, it seems to me that there isn’t so much a “war on education” but rather a slow surrender accompanied by a thin line of refugees, leaving their district schools for charters and other options, and a smaller line of refugees leaving the monopoly for the private sector (which of course includes homeschooling.)

   Anyone who advocates for REAL reform (anything that hurts the Government Education Complex financially or pedagogically, are branded as unreasonable, conservative, ultra-religious zealots and generally people who don’t know what they’re talking about. They are marginalized by the monolith that is government provided compulsory schooling.

   If there is any war, it’s being perpetrated on those people who have the gall to challenge the monopoly. It would make sense to presume the people marginalized in this manner, would be a little miffed.

   Reply
7. Chalk Face says:
   August 30, 2011 at 6:04 pm

   Public schools should certainly be evaluated in terms of how they can be improved. However, you’re reading people’s conception of government and public schools. Many do not conflate the two. In fact, if you read over the PDK study, you’ll see that people feel great about their child’s public school, overwhelmingly in fact. So, careful not to conflate, say, the public’s approval of Congress and public schools. They’re not the same and many do not view public schools as government entities, per se.

   The so-called Federal Government has really taken a beating lately, but I wonder what people view as the Federal Government. That is, not everyone would have the same definition because everyone has their bone to pick. Some might emphasize taxes, spending, Labor, Education, the IRS, Congress, or whatever. So the poll might be interesting, but it’s not really open to a lot of nuance.

   Reply
8. BbBennett says:
   August 29, 2011 at 6:28 pm

   When the American public’s faith in the government is at an all time low… lower than all other industries… even oil companies, is it any wonder that people think government run schools are bad?

   http://www.gallup.com/poll/149216/Americans-Rate-Computer-Industry-Best-Federal-Gov-Worst.aspx

   Should public schools NOT be under scrutiny? Should people not be allowed to show their displeasure in the abilities of an institution (government run or private) with their feet, and even with their money?

   Reply

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